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A (hopefully) bipartisan idea to fund research on guns in the US.

Last posted Mar 27, 2018 at 04:22PM EDT. Added Mar 24, 2018 at 08:36PM EDT
5 posts from 2 users

This is an idea I've been bouncing around today. It's an idea that is unlikely to gain traction in the partisan environment we're in now, but I think you guys might enjoy it as a bit of political theory.

I've been thinking about the gun issue lately, and what to do about it. I admit as a lefty I do have a slight anti-gun bias, but I try to avoid letting it affect my judgement as I feel somewhat uninformed on the topic. I've been having some trouble though, due to some lack of data. Almost all the data I could find came from sources one could easily claim as biased, and what didn't seem that way was often incomplete most of the time. It was genuinely hard to form an opinion on more than just my own bias.

I discovered the source of this recently: as it stands the government essentially prevents grand-scale studies with its limitations on its own studies and its data. I was very bothered by this to say the least, I am very pro-science for law, and the complete crackdown left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The dickey and tiahrt amendments struck me as extremely zero tolerance (I advise ya'll to look those up if you don't know them). The difficulty of getting gun data makes it only worthwhile to advocates most of the time, which makes most of it easily disregarded as biased NRA/anti-gun propaganda for the public, leaving most people in the dark or swayed by a given advocacy group. Yet I also understand the ideas about the privacy of gun sellers, and the idea that the government studies are biased. But I believe that there are bipartisan ways to deal with these issues.

Starting with the CDC. The complaint about the CDC studying gun violence, was that the CDC had a bias towards anti-gun advocacy, and thus the Dickey Amendment was supposed to eliminate that. Congress also proceeded to cut the funding for gun studies and allocate it towards traumatic brain injuries. While I won't get into whether that claim of bias is true, which is a messy ordeal if you look into the details (I tried my best to form a concrete opinion on whether it was true or not and I failed, it's that messy.), It is true that government agencies can be prone to bias. A particularly common bias is that an agency will often not put out studies that harm its future existence or would reduce their funding, like studies that suggest government action in their area of study doesn't help the public or hurts them.

There is a way to avoid this, a method that's used commonly within the government itself, and it's fairly effective. Separation of powers. My proposal is this: Remove the Dickey amendment which effectively ended up banning gun studies from having certain conclusions and lead to a cut in funds for the subject, but have an alternate mandate that the CDC must study all of the key facets to this multifaceted issue, by having sub-groups within its gun research center. Instead of constantly arguing that the CDC is ignoring this or that with some study, there would be different groups for self-defense, enforcing current laws, dangers of gun ownership, gun-wielding guards etc. Probably more broad than those though, if you wanted to keep the groups from being too expensive.

The goal of this being that no topic is ignored, and that no matter the conclusion in the debate the CDC will keep funding in gun research. If they conclude that self-defense plays a key role in reducing deaths, it can advocate programs informing the public on self-defense and keep funding. If they conclude that guns are a bit too unchecked, it can advocate laws that regulate them. I find it unlikely it won't have something to do in the end with this program. In addition, you could have the internal groups review each other's work if you want to take it a bit farther for accuracy. The other goal of this is to avoid bias by producing independent groups without splitting directly on partisan lines that make it nonscientific.

On changing the tiahrt amendment, which prevents federal gun trace data from being used for anything but ongoing criminal investigations, I propose that an anonymized form of the data is made public while the original data is still kept sealed for the moment. While there's debates on how public the overall federal debate should be due to lawsuits on gun sellers being possible with the full data, I want to avoid that part of the debate and focus on promoting the academic research on guns. Essentially, preserve as much of the data as possible without revealing the particular gun sellers, so that academic research can be done with it.

I essentially just want the science to not be restricted by politics, as currently it feels like it very much is. This is the best idea I have to make it happen without risk of future restriction or have it be disregarded as being from a biased source. Even if you're the hardest 2nd amendment supporter, the 2nd amendment doesn't have much to do with private restrictions on guns, and private companies trying to avoid danger for their employees. They might want this data to make the best decision in that area. The freedom for science is bad for only those who are afraid of being wrong. Perhaps with the right data, we can close the book on this issue ey?

Last edited Mar 24, 2018 at 09:03PM EDT

tl;dr Remove the dickey amendment (worth googling to stay informed) on the CDC but mandate that they have subgroups study all the facets of the gun issue, and let gun trace data be public but anonymized for academic studies, rather than how the current tiahrt amendment (also worth googling) sets things up.

Last edited Mar 24, 2018 at 09:50PM EDT

Just because congress has tied the hands of the CDC from doing any research into gun violence via the dickey amendment does not mean there has been zero research into gun violence. The FBI, CDC and other government agencies publish yearly reports and "raw data" for anybody to browse and do research on. What the government apparently does not want is government organizations and most likely organizations that receive funding from the government for doing anything more then simply publishing data. Private businesses are free to do so.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/about

https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/pages/welcome.aspx

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2016-crime-statistics-released

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2017-preliminary-semiannual-crime-stats-released

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/02/gun-violence-public-health/553430/

"The actual amendment sponsored by Jay Dickey, a congressman from Arkansas, did not explicitly forbid research into gun-related deaths, just advocacy. But the Congress also lowered the CDC’s budget by the exact amount it spent on such research. Message received. It’s had a chilling effect on the entire field for decades."

"..Mark Rosenberg, then the director of the CDC’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. In response to the early ’90s crime wave, Rosenberg had said in 1994, “We need to revolutionize the way we look at guns, like what we did with cigarettes … It used to be that smoking was a glamour symbol--cool, sexy, macho. Now it is dirty, deadly--and banned.”

So basically congress passed the Dicky Amendment because they were rightful in fearing Rosenberg's rhetoric, or that Rosenberg wouldn't keep his trap shut and thus docked them benjamins. Message received.

Also, from what I've read about the taihrt amendment is mostly in trying to safeguard locations of those 3% who own 50% of the guns in America; don't want them being robbed given how leaky the government is, do you? Plus, certain police organizations would prefer such data be kept quiet due to undercover investigations and the like.

Anyways, the main reason people want the CDC to do research on gun violence is aside from them wanting to treat gun violence as a public health issue (what?) is that out of the roughly 30,000 yearly deaths from "gun violence" some 20,000 of those are suicides. Most likely they want to look at the link between guns and suicides.

If you want to go further then roughly 3/4th of the remaining 10,000 deaths are due to gang related activities. Burglaries, theft, and then maybe a few others until eventually you hit the mass shooting category. I doubt they make up 0.1% of the yearly gun deaths, but given how much of a spectacle they are thanks to the media they get all the attention, and not the similar bodycounts that happen across the nations every weekend across just a few urban metropolises.

Now, if statistics were kept on crimes that were avoided or stopped due to firearms, that would be infinitely more enlightening then the statistics that continue to trickle out now.

@Zombie_Boy

Most of that makes good sense zombie, thanks.

There are 2 minor things I'd like to reply to tho for the sake of those reading the thread. According to wikipedia there are a good number of police organizations against the tiahrt amendment, but at least 1 major one for it, so it's a mixed bag in way of police reception. Police want the tools to track down illegal gun sellers, but apparently it could also result in undercover agents or investigation targets being tipped off.

Also tbh I'm not sure why ya said (what?) to the public health issue thing, treating homicide and subsets as something that effects the public health seems fair enough to me imo, since the CDC covers injuries and deaths of a lot of kinds despite disease being in the name. Homicide rate is notably higher in the US compared to most of the developed world, for reasons that will be in debate for eternity. I'm guessing you're mostly surprised since that's usually a separate crime affairs thing tho, which I get.

Deaths as a result of guns being a "public health issue" is a bit of a weird one for me, IMO. Mostly due to the fact that deaths involving guns usually involve a myriad of factors that eventually lead upto said altercation involving a gun.

I can see why they would want to study such a link though; does having access to a gun make the act of impulse actions more common? Or are these people hardened enough to substitute something else for a gun if none is available?

As for the Tiahrt amendment, thats one of them grey areas. I suppose a review of such an amendment would be in order? :)

Skeletor-sm

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