Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

It won't go anywhere period. Outside of Germany, who single handily is taking any of this seriously, I fail to see how it's going to go. You think you're going to end fossil fuels? Tell that to oh so precious Scandinavian countries that are right now dependent heavily on their oil industries, and are actively fighting for growing arctic seas that are going to be one of the future battlefields.

As you said, neither China nor India is capable. Even at the rate China is investing into renewable energy, and alternative energy, it is not going to be able to sustain this kind of infrastructural spending, when it's economy is so close to being on the brink.

And behind all this world blistering and posturing it's the underdogs, the silent fighters who have been pushing the resources, and the technology forward to realize a future that is far more sustainable.

The Elon Musks who are investing so much in clean transportation. To Intel which is trying to make their chips and products be absolutely conflict free. To the gas companies developing a cleaner alternative to oil. Just to name a few.

I give this accord 1 year before everyone changes the definition of "greenhouse gas" so they can claim they've reduced it, while doing nothing.

And what exactly is the consequences for not following this accord? What exactly do they think they can do if a country, even one who agrees to it, goes back on their word?

lol nothing.

{ There is no penalty for countries that miss their emissions targets. But the agreement has transparency rules to help encourage countries to actually do what they say they will do. The agreement says all countries must report on their emissions and their efforts the reduce them. But it allows for some "flexibility" for developing countries that "need it." }

It's a smokescreen, now they can all check environmental issues off their list of things to do for the next five years. It's not the countries who have to enforce these policies at the end of the day, it's the manufacturers. They're the ones who will be fined based on individual countries' laws, China will ignore this as a whole and tell their manufacturers to keep on keeping on. The US/EU/etc will drive even more jobs to China and India by fining those who don't lower emissions.

Unless the government actually builds these companies nuclear power plants, there's no way they can reduce their emissions to zero. That or allows them to evict small-town sized areas of people for massive solar panels or wind farms. There's no source of energy that can help a company produce no emissions, and no way manufacturers smack dab in the middle of a city or industrial district have the room to use the "green methods" suggested tk power their machinery off of clean energy instead of using electricity from power plants that burn fossil fuels.

Unless we just make more dams, which destroy more freshwater areas and kill more freshwater species. And even with how efficient nuclear power is, the fact it needs to be powered by water in order to function could be cause for concern.

There are solutions our governments can take though.

Break down any legislative barriers of entry to competitive alternative energy starter ups, and new-coming companies. Break down legislative barriers t hat keep existing polluting giants from having to engage in competition with less-polluting models.

re-evaluate current and existing environment laws that prevent expansion of new energy. For example, California legislation that prevents new gas refineries or water desalinization plants.

allow for municipal and federal contracts to private citizens or companies to engage in pollution clean up – and find profit in it.

instead of subsidizing, create tax incentives for citizens and companies that are engaged in green technology.

Formalize and factor in the pollution cost as many MANY industries are demanding.

set a realistic, and clear environmental policy that does as little as possible to damage the economy, and does everything possible to maximize innovative technology, and green competitiveness.

It's easy to say that, but actually doing it? Especially when foreign nations entire diplomatic relations rely on old power ((Russias Oil Industry, OPEC, China's Coal)), not to mention the 10's of millions of people involved in the oil, coal, and mining industries who will lose their jobs and will not be able to find new ones.

That's not an exaggeration either. Many of the actual workers don't have good enough education to switch industries, won't find equivalents to their jobs in clean energy, and rely on the work for medical coverage for the diseases found from working in said industries and entire livelihoods. It's not going to be as easy as "breaking legislative barriers" when the GDP tanks and unemployment skyrockets.

I do wonder how many cried when the horse-cart makers lost their jobs.

But in seriousness.

Implementing the above mentioned policies in the US would hopefully spur a massive push towards innovation and technology. Such technology can easily be shared, distributed, and applied elsewhere through simple and basic trade. Already, many countries are engaged in technological and innovative cooperation. For example. Israel has one of the best, if not THE best water conservation technology available right now, and as such has seen a lot of technological and tech related fields that are now partnering up with places like India and China.

The goal here is to create a cheaper, greener alternative, that CAN be adopted by the far poorer and more developing nations. Because the reality is they do not have the infrastructure necessary to adopt and the expensive western green technology we are trying to push. Not while many of them are still trying to build themselves out of the post-colonial nightmare.

To that end, if the US can become the technological cradle of that kind of innovation it would create and encourage a lot more investment domestically, not to mention, encourage entrepreneurial spirit our generation so sorely is lacking but so sorely needs. Would China and Russia, and other developing nations adopt their technology overnight? Absolutely not.

But give the cheaper, cleaner alternative to the common man, and no oil-coal monopoly can withstand political will.

On a more near-sighted goal, first and foremost, I urge every and all self-proclaimed environmentalist to seriously look into gas and nuclear technology as a stepping stone, not a means to an end, but a stepping stone to a far cleaner, and cheaper tomorrow.