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This is such a common problem amongst the public and society. There is a general view that feminine people seem weak and fragile and as such can not possibly commit any form of evil. As if they are angels in human form.

History and modern day has shown this is not true, an example would be cleopatra. Now I can't expand because I admittedly don't know much about her but you can see this on her wikipedia page. I can list many more but the general Idea is that just because someone is a woman, that doesn't mean they won't make impulsive decisions.

DISCUSS!

Women and men, in most situations, should be treated as equals. However, equality is not:

- "Getting back at men for misogyny"
- having everything be 50-50
- Women and men have to be physically identical
- Women who act like attention whores online should not be ridiculed
- Women can do whatever the fuck they want
- Women raping male children is "them wanting it" while men raping female children is a crime

The only real exceptions are those that apply to gender specific issues such as abortions, which the gender to who it applies to should have some more leeway. Women and men are both capable of horrible evils, women and men are both capable of amazing things as well. However, because socially women are considered a "protected" demographic, when their limitations are lifted, they actually come out with more privileges than expected, and because people don't realize that women are a "protected" demographic, they will continue to protect them despite the limitations being lifted. This ironically elevates women above men in quite a few situations, most notably those involved with women being sentenced for crimes.

It astounds me how difficult of a concept this is for people to grasp.

If we go by liberal rules, we need affirmative action (government mandated status elevation) for women to make up for our history of oppression in this country at the hands of male privilege. Why should we be agree to being equals after centuries of playing second citizen? Why should we even accept a supposedly "protected demographic" status as opposed to the full affirmative action felt by racial minorities?

You're a misogynist bigot if you don't agree, I'm pretty sure that's how this works.

Protected demographic means protecting women because they are physically weaker than men. That is all it should really mean.

So, in other words, it works by the same logic as "Crimes of our fathers?"

it is a biological response.
Because our species only breeds one baby at a time and it takes quite a while before that baby can be birthed an stay alive on it's own, we need to protect our females.
1 female can only be impregnated by 1 male at a time.
however 1 male can impregnate multiple females.

We are trained subconsciously to treat females as weaker and needed to be protect, not because they need to anymore, but because while we were developing as a species we needed to, to ensure our survival.

Thus why we treat men as expendable because when you need to send someone off to fight in a war, even if a female can hold their own, they are too biologically valuable to the continuation of the species to be sent off to die.

Of course now we are so wide spread and populous we can afford to treat both men and women as equals without risking the species. However those biological urges get in the way a lot and there isn't much we can do about em.

So, what are you suggesting? More affirmative action be taken? Women be elevated to a higher podium then men?

{ So, what are you suggesting? More affirmative action be taken? Women be elevated to a higher podium then men? }

We don't get any affirmative action. If you go to a job interview and a black guy is there and you both have similar resumes, the black guy gets hired because he's black. One of the biggest problems in this country is that there aren't enough women in high level positions, so if me and a man have similar resumes I should get hired automatically over him because of my status as a formerly oppressed person in this country. If it works for blacks why can't it work for women?

It's not that my podium is being elevated, but yours is being knocked off its unnecessarily high pegs.

{ So, in other words, it works by the same logic as “Crimes of our fathers?” }

Sins of our fathers??

If you want a trope name for it, sure, I just want the same logic racial minorities get to be applied to gender minorities. Isn't that what modern equality is all about?

Wait, I thought I you were being sarcastic… and I upvoted you too for it. Poe's Law is a bitch sometimes.

What I mean by Sins of our fathers is that people should be compensated or punished based on the actions of people in the past, not the actions of the person themselves.

The fact that Affirmative Action helps Black People escape the poverty trap is the only reason I somewhat support it, but seeing how women aren't stuck there, I fail to see how it's the same. The level and flavor of discrimination against Blacks in the past and Women in the past is not the same.

Besides the point since the topic of the thread is about the idea that women can do no wrong, which is complete bullshit.

"Isn’t that what modern equality is all about?" Maybe on Tumblr…

"gender minorities" AHAHAHA!!!!!

We already have a law, "Executive Order 11375," which makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of gender. It's not really what you are suggesting, but affirmative action has always been a touchy subject. Ryumaru Borike is right though, this is pretty off topic

Executive Order 11375: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11375

{ but seeing how women aren’t stuck there, I fail to see how it’s the same. }

1 in 3 American women are in poverty as we type this right now, along with any of their children. Just as their is a wage gap for women, there is an observable and documented poverty gap.

Women have historically and still do have a higher unemployment rate than men, women still get paid less for the same jobs as men, anything you can say to justify black affirmative action you can say about women in this country as well. "Women" includes all races, so you could even say that it's far more important to extend affirmative action to struggling women of all races rather than singling out one.

We have blacks marching around the country because they're still being discriminated against today even with the aid of affirmative action, why should women again take the back seat in this discussion?

Please go ahead and explain that position.

{ Besides the point since the topic of the thread is about the idea that women can do no wrong, which is complete bullshit. }

"100% of women aren't pure virginal idol waifus, DO YOU AGREE??" isn't really a discussion topic.
Second post made it more about women's social status, that's what I responded to.

women still get paid less for the same jobs as men

Does this 'fact' still hold true when accounting for women also working for less hours and taking more vacations then men overall?

Does your question still apply when considering that 62% of working women hold minimum wage, per hour jobs and the opposite is true for men? Your question applies to salaried workers, yet only a third of working women get paid salaries instead of an hourly wage. How nice that your gender gets to consider vacations and time off when working mothers are increasingly picking up overtime shifts and multiple minimum wage jobs to support themselves and their children.

You know, that didn't answer my question at all.

Its funny how you bring up children and working mother. If these women weren't having children, they could probably get better jobs and not to have to spend money on children. Because children in the large majority of cases are a choice for women.

Worlds overpopulated anyway.

Yeah, if only their kids' fathers had stuck around to provide a more stable home environment… if only those bitches would stop having kids of their own accord. That's a really big problem in minority communities too, that's why there are so many affirmative action programs for single black mothers which whites are not eligible to receive.

Women were generally protected because they were child bearers. They traditionally were responsible for rearing children. Considering women physically have to carry a baby for 9 months that has a high chance of dying in the first 5 years of life, women are often in a vulnerable position. Because this role is vital to the survival of a colony, women are traditionally protected in most cultures.

Issues in equality arose when these roles slowly became less important due to improvements in medicine and revised social structure making the role relatively obsolete.

Ah, yes, I'm sure every single mother chose to be in a situation where they financially struggle to support their children. It's not like unexpected divorces and financial trouble ever happen, right? Are you seriously trying to shame people's natural urge to procreate on top of thinking it's somehow idiotic to want both children and a successful job? Oh, but it's fine for men to have children and successful jobs. Men having children and successful jobs? Totally plausible. Women having children and successful jobs? Pfft, get your head out of the clouds!

By the way, let's stop pretending the solution to overpopulation is for everyone to just stop having babies. Not only are you not gonna stop people from having babies, but having a population of elderly people that outnumbers the younger generations that are supposed to support them is not my idea of a solution.

I'm not saying the chose to struggle. I'm saying if you're struggling and then you have kids, don't expect things not to get harder.

And no it's not "men can have kids and successful jobs and women can't." it's more of "1 person in the relationship, the one who isn't the primary caretaker (which usually is the man because in general women prefer that role), can probably have a stable job." Its probably possible for the 2 parents to have good jobs but its not something I think people should just expect.

Its not THE solution to overpopulation. But do you know that it could help if people were more responsible and thought more about these things. I'm not saying no one should have children ever anymore. However it seems like younger adults are having children really early in their lives when they aren't even in a good situation. A lot of women don't account for the fact that the person they've been with for 2 years might not be the right person for them and have children anyway. Not only does it make it harder for the mother to support their children, the children lives suffer from it too.

But hey I'm sorry that thinking maybe people should just think a little bit more about these things rather than just being an octomum and broke is "shaming peoples natural urge". Oh wait I realized that im not doing that, im shaming those who's urge overpowers their ability of foresight and judgement.

So remember, in a world where its hard enough for anyone to get a job, when good jobs aren't being given to women that haven't done anything but rear children, its clearly sexist and men's fault. Thanks! We should just say fuck you to the people actively trying to get jobs in fields and places by putting all their passion and effort into it and just give them all to single mothers with 5 years olds because they are NEVER responsible for the choices they make!

Do we have to drag the wonderful "cinnamon roll" meme into gender politics?

I mean I consider John Cena a cinnamon roll and he's pretty manly.

I don't fully agree with Spider-byte but some food for thought – regardless of whether women chose to be a mother/child supporter or not, it doesn't automatically imply gender inequality just because they have lower paying/no jobs.

Gender inequality would be caused by the organization that employs them themselves. In general, thsee organizations do NOT segregate except for possibly the hiring process and individuals being sexual harassing, which is not something that can fully be controlled on the corporate level – especially if undetected.

It's also important to note that many women are also simply not experienced enough in their trade to be paid as much. I don't get paid as much as my coworkers because of my inexperience and lack of full formal college education much more than possiblet misogyny.

Of course, that's not to say it doesn't happen, but I think it'a much more on a personal basis and very over inflated considering past oppression of women. The worst thing an activist can do is focus on a non issue and over inflating the importance of those sorts of things.

Imho the most limiting thing for women which is rarely addressed is their families. Many women are reared in families that suggest to them to embrace a mother role over independent roles, due to traditional family values. In the end, businesses and schools can only be so responsible for women getting paid less than men, and it'd important to note that many women are simply employing themselves in lower paying positions. Why? Likely because of how they were raised.

Women getting payed less or having less jobs is a completely different issue. Please stay on topic.

@Egloramore If it gives you the impression of a woman who looks like an angel that did no wrong then it was appropriate.

Nothing is equal in this world except the fact that we all die…
Discrimination will always exist, the question is:
What are the proportions?

Some of these problems can be fixed and some can't.
And even then…
You can't fix something that doesn't want to be repaired.

Want to fix discrimination? Fix society first, good luck with that.

I have seen some of the most cruel, angry, and hateful women in my life. My aunt is greedy, self-destructive, and impulsive. Another one of my female relatives has fought to maintain the benefits she earned from a crime that divided my extended family while fully aware of what she was doing, Grace Mugabe, a female politician on my country tried to cover up a land reform policy that led to many people being made homeless while also covering up corruption in general.

Women in general, might not be as physically strong as men, are also still capable of vile acts. I read about a mother in South Africa who after discovering her daughter was a lesbian, had some random guy rape her to make her straight. Most slut shaming is done by women overall and many discourage other women from being authentic in who they are. This idea that women pedophiles and rapists should not be taken as seriously as male pedos and rapists just because they are less common is the most enraging thing.

however, you`re less likely to be directly harmed by a woman. And most violent criminals are MOSTLY male but that is not the result of anything inherently wrong with men. That's the result of upbringing. The idea that women are just innocent victims is misogynistic because it implies that they are weak, frail, and powerless like children (and even they`re not innocent) from this idea springs forth white knight syndrome, women who think they are entitled to special treatment, women who can't pull their weight, and young girls who lack confidence. This also stops men from being allowed to be vulnerable and open with their feelings which is important for mental health since half of humanity now as to sacrifice themselves for the other half.

And finally this idea ultimately takes power away from women because they are seen as weak and cannot be trusted with power leaving them at the mercy of men who are not allowed to be human and this refusal to allow men to get critical psychological help plays a BIG part in gender based violence since society gives them no means of expressing their pain in a healthy manner and they are socialized to be more aggressive and confrontational in a more physical and violent manner.

TL;DR everyone gets raped or commits suicide yay! :D

@Soluna you forgot to include that Grace spends lots of money when she travels with her husband (by the way it is Robert Mugabe for those who don't know )

Mostly because of the social construct in most countries a woman is seen as weak and pure being that needs protection therefore situations like getting less harsher penaltys in rape cases , mostly likely to win the custody of the children benefits them.
But it's bad because if a woman does not want to be considered a weak gets beaten, accused of not being feminine enough, gets low paid jobs even with a degree.
I think that the solution for this is to educate our children that gender does not make you different from the other gender in anything but the genitals, some studies claim that children do not discreminate based on gender until they are though that by social construct about the gender roles