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I don't know why there's not an entry about this one either after the fuss its been causing (as always, for the wrong reasons).

A summary if you've missed it somehow:

{ A Kentucky county clerk who has become a symbol of religious opposition to same-sex marriage was jailed Thursday after defying a federal court order to issue licenses to gay couples.

The clerk, Kim Davis of Rowan County, Ky., was ordered detained for contempt of court and later rejected a proposal to allow her deputies to process same-sex marriage licenses that could have prompted her release.

Instead, on a day when one of Ms. Davis’s lawyers said she would not retreat from or modify her stand despite a Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage, Judge David L. Bunning of United States District Court secured commitments from five of Ms. Davis’s deputies to begin providing the licenses. At least two couples planned to seek marriage licenses Friday. }

The two couples have been issued their marriage licenses this morning btw.

So, why is this issue drawing attention for all the wrong reasons? Well, the person who defends the right of private business to operate on a religious basis according to the 1st Amendment is invoking it again, but probably not how you think.

The county clerk is an elected government position, which should clue you in right away. The 1st Amendment protects the people's right to religious freedom from the government. To invoke freedom of religion as a government official is in violation of the amendment itself, but this is not the angle being reported. This is the other "war" in America after the race war, the fundamentalist Christian war, reported on as decisively and aggressively as possible, not rationally and well-presented. Those kinds of things are for a media that wants its audience informed. Google her name and read some of the headlines. "Clerk stands firm on same-sex marriage, stays in jail" etc. She's in jail for being in contempt of court, not for being a Christian who disagrees with same-sex marriage.

If only we had judges as willing to find Obama in contempt of court for literally the same thing on illegal immigration, but that's none of my business.

Anyway, how do ya feel KYM?
You should go read some of the news article comments before you post if you think this is all too obvious to be such a big deal.

My opinion is that she works for the government, she was told to do something for her job, she refused, the court told her to do it or else, she didn't do it, she got punished. What else is there to say about it?

All I feel is that I think it's odd that she wasn't just fired from the position. I know it's contempt of court but in most other situations a firing would be a more appropriate action. Is that how government jobs work? :P

She can't be fired only impeached.

I don’t know why there’s not an entry about this one either after the fuss its been causing (as always, for the wrong reasons).

Probably because the events are very recent, and the topic would fit better under the Same-sex Marriage event.

I feel that you are posting this thread because you either find it your duty, or you are flanderizing yourself. I will break down your comment for you to point this out.

• This woman is actually in the wrong, but it's a conversative topic so I should spin it.
• I blame the media, because it is an easy target.
• Say the same thing I said before, because it pads out the post.
• Off-topic and unnecessary Anti-Obama message.
• How do you feel about this? Also, I believe that I know more than you so you should go read up more because I feel that you are too uneducated to converse with me.
• Emoji

My opinion is that she works for the government, she was told to do something for her job, she refused, the court told her to do it or else, she didn’t do it, she got punished. What else is there to say about it?

All I feel is that I think it’s odd that she wasn’t just fired from the position. I know it’s contempt of court but in most other situations a firing would be a more appropriate action. Is that how government jobs work? :P

Elected officials in America cannot be dismissed by a superior in that way. They must either resign, or be removed by a court of law.

Too late now to edit the OP unfortunately, but this is correct, elected officials can only be impeached and that's a whole other process/expense on the taxpayers they're hoping to avoid.

@the bro: another victim falls to I-only-read-the-thread-title-itus.

I believe this to be the appropriate action, seeing how she can't be fired, only impeached.

It doesn't matter what your personal beliefs are, you were elected to do your job, refusal to do so will result in punishment.

This should be a statement to other state officials that your personal beliefs do not trump federal law.

Other state officials are arguing that the first amendment is being violated by forcing her to issue marriage certificates.

That's why I said to look up the fuss if you think it's too obvious/clear cut to be a big deal. Controversy finds a way.

So early in the thread and you guys have already smashed the newspiece to bits. So proud! So what else can I talk about?

I guess I just do not see how all these guys are treating this as war on Christianity. It has been and currently is the major religion in the US by far, with our various extra amendments added to the Constitution chipping away at what people considered "against their first amendment rights" in the past. Do we not get educated in History as well as we think?

Other state officials are arguing that the first amendment is being violated by forcing her to issue marriage certificates.

You mean the very same amendment that says government will not respect an establishment of religion? Her (a government official) not issuing marriage licenses (to respect christian dogma) is the violation to the first amendment. How long until people get it through their thick skulls that the government making laws and decisions respecting religion is unconstitutional? It's freedom to practice religion, not enforce it on others.

Of course people are going to make a controversy out of it, even when they have zero ground to stand on, because this is just an extension of the Gay Marriage decision, itself a controversy.
It's all because people don't get that "Freedom of Religion" does not mean freedom to do what ever the fuck you want in the name of religion.

I don’t know why there’s not an entry about this one either after the fuss its been causing

Give it time. This is a meme site, not a news site. So news events don't get an entry until they definitely score far and wide across the memesphere.

Furthermore to that point, it's not like were all hawking the news 24/7, and that's likely the reason why there isn't an article just yet.

But if the event gets big enough to the point of being viral, then it does get discussed on KYM sooner or later.

You should go read some of the news article comments before you post if you think this is all too obvious to be such a big deal.

Must you always make it sound like KYM is an extremely sophisticated hivemind of politically-driven dismissal? I find it quite rude.

Anyway, how do ya feel KYM?

Hearing about this event makes me concerned, knowing that despite what legalities really happened, we know that the headlines will be "Good Christian Clerk refuses to marry filthy gays. Gets arrested by ebul guberment. Blah blah religious persecution blah blah Sodom blah Gomorrah blah". This is going to fuel the tensions among the religious right for sure.

They'll keep believing they are under attack from the LBGT community. And they'll believe the government is turning against them.

She definitely should have done her job. But perhaps jailing was overkill, as that's going to make her some kind of pseudo-martyr for religious zealots.

I think they should have brought in someone else to sign the licenses if she was truly that compelled not to do so under her beliefs. Is there any reason why that isn't an option?

Can you guys stop trying to be offended by everything I post?

{ Give it time. This is a meme site, not a news site. }

Which is why I pointed out it was getting widespread attention. I wasn't accusing the site of not being timely enough, I was saying "here's a potential entry if anyone wants to make it" because I don't like to be the OP of political/controversy entries thanks to people in the site comments doing the "oh lisa lombardo wrote this its just a troll" thing.

{ Must you always make it sound like KYM is an extremely sophisticated hivemind of politically-driven dismissal? }

I said it because I figured "she's violating the first amendment as a government official" seems overly obvious to anyone of our generation thus not everyone would see how this could be getting national attention/how it even escalated far enough to land someone in jail.

As for why she's in jail, she directed her deputy clerks to not issue marriage licenses (like Obama directed immigration officials to not obey federal immigration law) and refused to sign them, making them invalid. She was offered a deal that kept her out of jail if she would allow the deputy clerks to issue them, but she said she'd rather go to jail. The prosecutor told the judge merely fining her would be ineffective because she's shown her unwillingness to do her job and that thousands of people were ready to donate to a fund she could keep paying the fines out of while refusing to issue the licenses anyway.

NYTimes reported that Davis knew she'd probably go to prison and would be prepared for it. If you don't know, in the more conservative sects of Christianity, not only do they believe so many things are conspiring against them (recently listened to a presentation where a guy said gay marriage is a conspiracy to destroy Christianity), but there's also this idea that being a martyr is the best way to go out. Children are raised with a background idea (rarely, if ever, actually said, but always implied) that being persecuted is basically the most noble thing that could ever happen to you. Jailing her was absolutely the wrong thing to do, because now, she's (as Butterscotch said) a pseudo-martyr. She needed to be impeached, and if she actually knew her Bible well in the first place (Romans 13, 1 Peter) she would've stepped down.

Unless someone intervenes, she's going to be in that prison for a long, long time.

As a left-leaning Christian, this concerns even me. She was a government worker, so 1st amendment rights actually work against her, but the idea that she's being jailed until she changes her mind – that's just not right. The judge basically said "I am not going to let you out of prison until you change your mind about your religion", and unless that person is trying to injure someone I'm not sure it should go that far. Even in the case of threatening injury, it still might be more reasonable just to jail them for the crimes they committed, not until they change their mind!

If she were operating a private business, like that Pizza place, then I wouldn't see a problem with it, given my support of the free market. But the privileges of a private business don't apply when you're working for a public service. If she didn't want to partake in same-sex marriage licensing, she could have just quit, rather than bring public attention to herself. Even so, this barely warrants a jailing. We're already having an issue with over-housing of inmates, and now people are getting arrested for relatively harmless crap like this.

{ but there’s also this idea that being a martyr is the best way to go out }

The Christian jihad. Serious statement. Fundamentalists are fundamentalists.

{ but the idea that she’s being jailed until she changes her mind – that’s just not right. }

She's being jailed for being in contempt of court, "ordered detained" is what it's legally called. She'll be imprisoned until her impeachment trial or she accepts a deal or resigns. She was already given the option to let her deputy clerks issue the licenses instead of going to jail, she refused. Her beliefs have nothing to do with why she's in jail, her actions do.

She definitely should have stepped down with dignity when she had the chance. That should have been her statement of opposition. Right now she's just another religious fundamentalist holding hostages until she gets what she wants, or she was until they put her in a cell.

{ now people are getting arrested for relatively harmless crap like this. }

She's literally obstructing justice. It's not "relatively harmless" at all. There are six couples suing the county because of her refusal, and two of them are straight couples! She shut down the issuing of marriage licenses altogether after initially being accused of discrimination. She's gone rogue with her powers but she has to be legally stopped, and this is the only way to do it with someone elected. You can see why nobody goes for members of Congress or the executive branch no matter what they do.

Whoops. My mistake then. So yeah, I support free market and all that, but this isn't something worth putting too much concern into.

Edit:
Recently found that she's been married four times, so this is a bit of hypocritical stance for her. In a vastly different case I'd have sympathy. Not here though.

Read up a bit more

“Civil contempt is not supposed to be punitive; it’s supposed to coerce the person to obey the judge’s order,” said Adam Winkler, a law professor at the University of California, Los Angeles. “Once she promises to obey, or once the judge determines that more jail time will not encourage her to obey, they’ll let her out. But she could be in there for a year; it’s conceivable. Judges really don’t like it when people disobey their order.”

So, yeah, I was partly wrong. Still feels wrong, though. Ideally she'd just be impeached already.

Recently found that she’s been married four times, so this is a bit of hypocritical stance for her. In a vastly different case I’d have sympathy. Not here though.

Also, interestingly, while this isn't necessarily hypocrisy, she's a Democrat. Odd given gay marriage is one of the main dividing lines between Republican and Democrat.

After the ruling, Ms. Davis’s husband, Joe Davis, was among those unhappy with the proceedings inside.

“Tell Judge Bunning,” Mr. Davis said, “he’s a butt.”

The maturity levels are off the charts.

I guess homosexual people don't have right to marry.

Might as well rename USA as the Christian States of America (kinda accurate any ways)

{  “Once she promises to obey, or once the judge determines that more jail time will not encourage her to obey, they’ll let her out. }

All she has to do is let the deputies issue them! She doesn't even have to do it herself and she could go cry at home to her husband about how unfair the world is. It's as you said in your first post, she's playing the martyr now.

Kentucky is the only state having genuine issues, and in one county, so I don't think we need to be changing the name of any countries.

Just going to leave this here.

Hey there.

Don't care for the topic or the discussions. Just gonna throw this out. If it's to bring the event to attention for a possible entry, it goes into Meme Research.

I knew this would happen

Fundies are parading her as a hero and calling her a civil rights leader and an upholder of freedom of religion

Apparently religious discrimination is a civil right and freedom of religion means freedom to impose according to these people

Not everyone in the town is on board with these protesters however, as plenty of people are claiming that civil rights is precisely what Kim Davis is violating

They mask their bigotry with "religious freedom".

This Kim Davis lady has had more marriages than every user on KYM combined (low blow, I know). The Bible considers divorce to be a sin – it is only not a sin during infidelity.

However, Kim's backers overlook this – they just see a Christian women attempting to deny rights to a gay couple.

And people in the comments are still going "Ignore it and it will go away"

When Henry VIII wanted to divorce himself from his wife, he was committing a grave sin and a violation against the sanctity of marriage. Saint Thomas More abdicated his position of Lord High Chancellor rather than support that sin. More was only martyred after his resignation; he never went against the laws of the state while he was in a government position. Mrs. Davis is no Thomas More. Citizens of a given state are called to support man's law and God's law in equal measure. If the machinations of the state violate your beliefs, the right thing to do is resign; it is not to obstruct the mechanisms of government.

As others have pointed out, Davis has divorced several times and has had children out of wedlock. These are also grave sins and violations of the sanctity of marriage: she has no right to condemn others when she herself comes from such a place of dissolution.

It speaks to a frustration that I have with the way Christianity is handled in politics. Because all Christians are human beings, all Christians are tempted by sin; nearly all fall to temptation at times. "Judge lest not ye be judged" specifically applies to the soul: to claim that 'gays are going to hell' is the ultimate arrogance because it presumes divine knowledge. Only God can pass final judgement on the eternal soul. We can call out other people's actions as wrong, but never know what their ultimate fate will be.

TL;DR: If you have a state job and the state orders you to do something against your beliefs, the right thing to do is to resign, not to break the law.

She was released after a judge ordered upon her the same terms of the deal she originally rejected (the deputies issue the licenses) and the judge said if she tried to stop them he will act accordingly. She has vowed to keep pressing the issue.

The vid of her walking out is pretty atrocious.

I saw it on the morning news of her walking out like some kind of victor, I almost threw up. Maybe she doesn't realize if she continues she's back in jail?

bruh I could not even watch past when she had her arms up in the air and was bawling at the same time, sickening is the best adjective for that display for sure. I hate that Huckabee was actually there but everybody knows Huckabee is a fundamentalist lunatic anyway so I'm sure it's fine.

She's just an attention-seeking hypocrite. All this fuss is undeserved, and something more important should be covered

IDK, I think people being denied their legal rights and widespread support of Bigotry should be covered.

A group called the Oath Keepers are planning to intervene if Davis is arrested again.

Yes, please. Nothing will hurt the evangelicals more than armed right-wing thugs threatening police attempting to do their jobs.

Do they realize their plan will only end with them in cuffs or in bodybags?

@Ryu

Most likely not. These guys are vigilantes. They probably think they are the A-team