Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

lets discuss these two, their similarities, their differences, their userbase, their rules

tactics, language usage, wit/rhetoric, bias (esp. confirmation), objectivity

Both dumb.
Ok, in all honesty they're both extremists sides of both sides of a (in my and other forum goers opinions) pointless argument. Best to stay far away from them.
Also KotakuInAction is a really dumb name, just call yourself GamerGate, Kotaku isn't the only one in the Ordeal and not all of its articles ate shit.

KiA conducts itself a lot better than Ghazi does but both are pretty embarrassing. I did gain some momentary KiA popularity and I was able to come out about some very personal information in regards to something related to SJWs without persecution but both are huge sources of drama. Neither is worth it. Ghazi is definitely the worse of the two though.

Actually, if I recall correctly. Ghazi is heavily anti-GG.

I read some posts from there before. Suffice to say, the insanely loose use of logic in there was embarrassing. Hence why I feel it's better to not get involved in the whole GG thing. You'd be surrounded by crazies.

Edit: Oh wait, sorry. I misread your post. Sorry about that, feeling a little slow today. Haha.

I've looked at both their subreddit's, and while both of them are full of crazies, I feel like the stuff said on GamerGhazi is quite a bit more ridiculous. I feel like KiA, while often being completely stupid too, at least are trying to accomplish something at times, while Ghazi is pretty much either 'Omfg harassment and misogyny' or 'hurrdurr look at this gamergate logic, what a bunch of idiots amirite'

That's not to say KiA does the exact same thing though (just swap out harassment/misogyny for ethics and 'dem damn SJWs'). And yes, I want them both to just piss off and die (metaphorically).

All I know is that I posted on KiA when the Gamergate comment lock happened explaining the situation and why KYMers didn't like GG. The first responses were civil but then people started calling Bias (for relaying information) and a liar. Take that what you will.

It seems odd to call KiA the 'opposite side of the same coin' when they're the ones who insist on being fastidiously polite and insistent on ethics and nothing but ethics most of the time, compared to, say, /gamergatehq/.

Frankly, they seem extremely similar to me. They both take themselves and their opposition to the other extremely seriously, they both of insane amounts of inside drama, they both strongly support Bernie Sanders and they both have developed their own language for engaging the Gamergate issue. The only difference that I can find between them the echoes of political philosophy within them. KiA adapts age-old talking points of elite think tanks, obviously because they were planted there by an elite think tank, this is what happens when you look to Adam Baldwin, James Delingpole and Christina Hoff Sommers to form the basis of a movement. GamerGhazi's base has some of your typical Reddit users, but the actual leadership seems to be influenced by the strain of progressivism that KiA actually accuses them of. Beyond that, whatever. They're both petty and childish, both are guilty of confirmation bias per OP. I might as well throw in a United Atheist Alliance and Unified Atheist League joke here.

I can't help but feel that both of those sites get a lot of mileage out of saying really out there crap, and then making threads about the other site reacts to said crap. It's bait, and then laughing at people taking the bait, to act as if you didn't put out bait in the first place.

It's like posting really bad spam in this section of the forum, and when people point it out, going "Haha lol riff-raffed you! You look so dumb responding to the post I made in a serious thread." Actin retarded to get reactions is just plain retarded, period. Even the mentally challenged know better then that.

Between the two however, I'm going to say Kotaku In Action is a better place then GamerGhazi. For one, Gamer Ghazi derives its name from the Benghazi Attack, which is already like "WTF are you doing?". For another, there isn't a giant green-link calling the posters casual racists for not liking the BLM interrupting bernie sanders, so there's another strike.

To the claims of baiting and spam, please post examples of both sides doing this and to what extents

please show if these are isolated examples or if they're consistently recurring enough to be considered I guess sort of a pandemic to cetain extents within these subreddits

Please point out examples of specific arguments that you may find pointless on both sides.

and for future references, everyone, don't discuss the subreddit name decisions as they are irrelevant and furthermore unproductive

please provide examples of how you come to the conclusion of KiA trying to accomplish something more than the efforts of GamerGhazi,

please provide examples of how GamerGhazi pulls cop-out retorts in comparison to kiA

please explain how elite think tanks is not the right passage for KiA to be going about this.

please show how gamerghazi is influenced by progressivism

If there is something I noticed that is pretty common in many of these sub-reddits, KiA, TiA, Ghazi, BestofOutrageCulture, ect, it's this same condescending tone and reactions.
Some kind of mob mentality of betlittling what is considered by the group as preposterous.

I won't go as far as claiming that this is reddit's mentality, or even mankind's mentality as a whole, but meh.

Ghazi isn't good, but KIA is one of the most shrill, hyperbolic boards I have ever seen. Not a day goes by without a user posting a 750-word screed about how they're the crusaders for ethics in game journalism or how the evil SJW menace has taken over the internet and media.

1. That isn't what I said, and I'm not even 100% sure what this is supposed to mean. If you're asking why being influenced by think tanks is a bad thing, we have to take a look at the one that's doing it. In this case, it's the American Enterprise Institute. Now, perhaps some people here would support the AEI, which is their choice. However, there's something to be said for the fact that the majority of KiA supports Sanders, who is very directly at odds with the institute. If somebody supports the long, long list of positions upheld by the AEI, then maybe they have no problem with it. Now, if they don't support the TPP, then maybe they shouldn't be looking for guidance from one of its strongest supporters. There's more, of course, CHS's increasingly conservative Youtube videos began with more popular internet concerns such as feminism on college campuses and, when it was a hot subject, women in video games, but has since drifted toward the AEI's laundry list of social causes. I'm particularly with the adoption of James Delingpole's conspiracy-style narrative, but that's recycled countless times.

2. A few days ago u/GhaziMods deleted some threads and made a sticky (that could not be replied to because a bot would delete comments) saying that it was supposed to be a "progressive" place, but that apparently the sub had too much of the usual Reddit crowd, and called users out on "casual racism" for saying that BLM's interruption of Sanders' rallies was a bad tactic. Is that sufficient?

[…] but that apparently the sub had too much of the usual Reddit crowd, and called users out on “casual racism” for saying that BLM’s interruption of Sanders’ rallies was a bad tactic.

Wait, how does that count as progressivism, or progressive, for that matter??

https://np.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3hz406/today_is_vivian_jamess_birthday_here_is_some_oc/

…and now they're celebrating their waifu's birthday party.

>broritos

I know this is a joke, but it doesn't change that they both said and upvoted it. I feel sorry for the other GGers who want to be taken seriously by outsiders.

Oh, who am I kidding. Video games.

Oh how horrible it is that people celebrated a character's birthday! What evil thing will these shitlords do next???

Guys, stay on topic. There are other places you can have your shit-flinging contest- not here.

How come whenever we talk about GG stuff we take everything 100% literal and uber srs? Like, to me that's obvious riff-raff style content. Why the heavy-handed push for us to freakout over it?

This is relevant to the topic because it reflects on KIA's methodology.

First rule of a successful movement: give reason for outsiders to join. KIA has complained constantly about a biased media misrepresenting them. This excuse flies out of the window when they make themselves look cringey of their own volition. People jumped onto feminists for using the "Male Tears" meme – why is this much better?

Unless GG has been an elaborate joke for the past year, then it should be wanting to develop as a movement. The mantra of tackling media corruption must be at the forefront, not memes about Doritos and m'waifus.

When your loudest voices are angry atheist Youtubers, then it's time to shed the past and find some new talking points.

EDIT: Let me put it another way. If you jump into a puddle of fecal matter and roll around in it as a joke, it doesn't change the fact that you're dripping head to toe in shit.

I'll be the judge of that.

The "Male tears" thing is based on the idea that people find joy in others misery. The Vivian James thing is people celebrating a birthday for a character they created. I really don't see how the two are related in any way.

Need I remind you that you're on a discussion forum on a website whose priority is documenting memes? What people choose to do on their private time does not affect the whole in any way. Think before you speak.

Are you assuming because they are angry or atheist they do not have valid points? That has to be the most piss-poor dodging I've ever seen.

I dunno. You say trying to excuse being covered in shit is bad, yet you're trying to pass off your opinions as something good.

So, the thread was made to discuss the userbase of both communities and their methods.

You chose to discuss a birthday while discussing nothing of their methods at all.

I fail to see how the two are related.

Get back on topic.

Now you're just being ridiculous, but fine. If you want to talk about how these two reddit sites should stay focused and be 100% serious all the time, let's play that game.

On Gamerghazi, there is nothing that really makes them anti-GG, as much as a loosely connected bunch of left-leaning posters. The top stories on Ghazi right now are about a serial rapist, the new york times telling a rape joke, Wonder Woman officiating a gay wedding in a comic book, Shaun King, Bernie Sanders being a bad man, and laughing at Anti-Marriage-Equality-Campaigners. What do these contribute to fighting GG? Nothing. What do they have to do with a cohesive movement? Nothing.

The only thing tying them together is that it's pro-diversity, not even gaming. And for the self-titled "Anti-Gamer Revolution" that leaves me a bit dissappointed. Of course, that's hardly something to worry about. How about the time they used Anita being a saint for their banner?

But I suppose it was okay for Ghazi to roll in a puddle of fecal matter and act like it was a joke. But god forbid some Gators do that. Oh no, they're obviously worse if they do anything involving some levity.

After all, don't you all love it when GGer's take everything super serious and never joke around about anything? It's not like we got an entire thread whose content involves mocking gger's for taking everything so seriously. No, what we wanted from them is a bigger stick of their ass, and a larger sense of dire urgency in their posting. God only knows their joking around is the true doom upon us all.

You said at the beginning of your post that "nothing really makes them [Ghazi] anti-GG"; that they are a "loosely-connected bunch of left-leaning posters."

By that logic, why would they care that they're making jokes at the possible expense of their image? You tried to directly compare them to KIA, when KIA is meant to be the serious movement. Sure, some Ghazi members are serious as a 'movement', but you implied that as a whole they aren't. Your logic debunks itself.

But no, I never said that Ghazi is good. My literal first clause on this thread outlines that.

I also never said that Ghazi should be serious. Mostly KIA, because THEY'RE THE GAMERGATE PAGE. They have much more to lose from shitposting. You strawmanned my argument in your very second sentence.

Not only did you put words in my mouth about my opinion of Ghazi, you did so in a way that weakens your counterargument.

KIA is meant to be a loose connection of posters who identify with the message of GG. Trying to make the argument that they're a serious movement is kinda ridiculous. Left-Leaning politics is a serious movement, but the loosely connected bunch of individuals who belivie in it isn;t. Why can't the same thing apply here? KotakuInAction is a loose connected bunch of individuals who believe in GG, yet they have to be held to some standard that is being thrust upon them more so by you then by themselves.

I wouldn't talk about putting words in people's mouths, when you're entire posts have done nothing but that from the start.

As far as I know, I'm not real crazy about neither of them, but Ghazi is even more batshit insane.

Hell, reddit is a sinking ship in my eyes.

GamerGhazi is REALLY bad; they outright defend pedophiles and were posting cp on one of their boards a while back.

Nice unprovable claim. You can't verify it, and if anyone asks you to, you can just say it's against the site rules to link to CP.

If you want to see what's worse, see what happens when you post something that goes against their (average) opinion.

Anyone can sort out the best and worst comments?

Srhbutts DMCA the chatlogs so she legally claimed the chatlogs, images and such as being hers. Hypothetically speaking let's say it's false: even if hypothetically it were true that she's innocent she's still in deep shit cause legally claimed ownership of cp as being her property.

Also, post links.

KiA can be moderately useful at times, but it requires a lot of white noise filtration. Ghazi is completely useless for finding information.

i know ima get flack for this, but imo kia is composed of idiots, i.e:

-Crying "CENSORSHIP" at every sub banning

-Comparing RES tags to the holocaust.

-Supporting breitbart after it shamed a girl with 20 twitter followers

-Getting mad at a mod after he said gender=/=sex

-brigading /r/circlebroke

imo ghazi is the better one of the two

On the other hand, KiA has actually done things outside of the internet, such as funding various charitable organizations and exposing genuine corruption here and there.

you mean funding the fine young capitalists, that have a rule saying "no men pretending to be women", that means no trans people?

Maybe you could stop being an idiot and do five seconds of googling to find the real answer to that question.

http://www.thefineyoungcapitalists.com/TransgenderPolicy

TripleCon4800 clearly believes the first thing he hears about anything. I'm glad I believed him to be an idiot to begin with. I do enjoy being right, after all.

But to keep some semblance of "on-topic", allow me to reply to your claims.

I looked into this extensively after I heard that 4chan was funding something. It struck me as 'off'.

The Fine Young Capitalists don't really give a rat's ass what you identify as. As they say, it's none of their business. They only ask that you can prove in some way that you've identified as female before a designated date, that I recall being the date they started their fundraiser.

In other words, they're trying to avoid people trying to scam some easy money off of their fundraiser by deciding to suddenly come out as trans in order to enter.

A word of advice: If you're going to claim to be for a greater good, don't make your willful ignorance so obvious.

You know why there is no r/Gamergate ?

It got deleted

As for the community, i don't think that KiA is THAT bad. Of course there is a lot of circlejerk going on there (stuff keeps repeating itself) but if you look beyond that you find a community that is open to discussion and ideas.
Don't even compare it to gamerghazi who have banned multiple persons from their subreddit just for saying they want to do research about gamergate. We should better talk about the other anti-gamergate subreddit, r/againstgamergate, wich has a far more reasonable community.

I will gladly give evidence to back up this statement, just as i expect anyone else to do this.
But i will only give this when asked because it is usually stuff that requires a lot of reading.