Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/feb/18/google-warns-government-hacking-committee-hearing

Enjoy having your personal info stolen.

Yet another reason I store my files on USB/SD cards.

Anyone can hack into a computer, especially the FBI. All this is trying to do is make that legal to some people, and from what I can tell it hasn't passed yet. To be honest though, what are the chances that, should this pass, they'll be burrowing through your own computer? The only times I can see them doing it is if they're trying to crack down on illegal deep web stuff, and they probably won't do that unless you give them reason to. I don't really support the proposal, since it does seem like a general invasion of privacy, but it's unlikely that the FBI is going to look at your stuff specifically.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

Seriously, I for the love of God couldn't imagine what the FBI would want with my files, let alone what they would do with it because I doubt something like the FBI is going to make fools of people in public on the internet.

The only shady thing I do is pirate old games that aren't made anymore. Will I go to jail now?

Didnt sources say that the NSA can hack into USBs now as well?

I'm pretty sure you're being paranoid

I'm going to go on what RandomMan said, but take it a step further.

I acknowledge that I live in an age of information. I acknowledge that I live under a nosy government. I acknowledge and even accept that privacy is just an illusion. I'm okay with that, as long as whatever I'm keeping private isn't leaked against my will to those I care about.

In my humble opinion, the only people screaming about a "right to privacy" are the people with something to hide in the first place. It's not like they're going to be leaking all of the weird fetish porn you jack it to on Facebook in a savage attempt at shaming you. This isn't a Joe-schmo reading your diary.

They're the fucking government. They have better things to do than make you feel important.

Frankly, I don't see this passing whatsoever, or at least on the scale of something like the NSA. This just seems like a more advanced search method to adapt to the digital age.

Even if it did get passed, the Due Process Clause (DPC) would still have to be used for them to legally search/hack your computer, arrest you for what you have on your computer, or take away your files/computer. That's assuming the FBI has to follow the DPC, though. There's no way the FBI would be allowed to go randomly snooping in someone's files without probable cause.

Unless they're into games and some pictures, then I have no fear.

Like, FBI aren't a "big evil" group. This is more to have easier time when they have to do serius investigations and search of data like CP or stuff.

I feel like RM. I don't care at all really. I don't care what some G-man thinks of my internet history or games I play. I don't have CP or bomb plans on my computer so I don't feel threatened or invaded by this. The odds that they looks through your computer in particular and delve into it super deeply are very slim as well. They probably just do surface checks when they do. They don't have time to look through everyone's stuff. I'll probably never meet any of these people so I don't care what their opinion of me is. I'm sure they've seen much worse than my history anyways.

I'm one of those super paranoid/self-conscious people where if there's a situation where people have to watch me or look through my stuff I'll get super freaked out and start thinking about the contents of my stuff hoping nothing suspicious in it. Or I worry that they might somehow dig up something terrible, and they'll blow up at me and I'll get in heaps of trouble for it.

Speaking of being self-conscious, I really don't like this, even though I know I don't have terrorism plans or insane hardcore porn in my computers and phones… I just feel like there going to be judging me…. It's already bad enough that your Internet provider knows every where you've been…

God, I can be so paranoid/insecure it's laughable. ;_;

Well, look at it this way: there's a lot of people on the Internet. A lot. In the US alone, there where 279,834,232 people online as of last year. In that huge slew of people, there's you. One person. Somehow I don't think the gov will care or know that you go to a website full of weirdos who worship "maymays".

UPDATE

I just read the article throughly. I noticed something.

This "hack" thing is meant for deepnet users or something. I dunno. I don't even know what "deepnet" is.

Here ya go

And it's best your "deepnet" knowledge stays at that. Ignorance is bliss.

I think we need a new net, The Danknet, where we banish all dank websites.

"I don't have anything to fear, so I'm fine with mine and other's rights being taken away."

Thank you for allowing your apathetic attitude to contribute to the growing power of government.

Next, will you allow a federal agent to come to your house and personally install an always-on home monitoring system, since they probably won't look at it anyway?

Why would they want my pony porn for? So they can arrest me for "beastallity" and then fap to it themselves?

And the FBI couldn't beforehand? I at least would have expected them to do that much earlier.
My opinion on the matter follows upon what RandomMan said; Nothing to Hide, Nothing to Fear.

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

What about the people who do have things they want to hide?
just look at the example below. Some people have nude photos they want to hide.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/the-fappening-celebgate

And before you say anything, look at this
http://www.therichest.com/luxury/most-expensive/the-most-expensive-magazine-covers-ever-shot/10/
a single picture was sold for $14million.
Do you think if someone had the power to steal some celeb images and sell them for millions, that they wouldn't do it?

What about an FBI agent also working for, say, Microsoft, and they pay the agent to hack Google's employee's e-mail and find out secrets?

The FBI and NSA and who ever creating backdoors and such also makes it easier for outside hackers to come in and steal info also.

If I have nothing to hide, then you have no reason to search. The FBI already has the power of standard search warrants if they have probable cause. They don't need to have any more power than that. And I doubt other countries would take too kindly to another country's law enforcement snooping through their citizens' computers whenever they felt like it. Kinda like what American law enforcement claims other countries are doing to America all the time. This is never about being made a fool of, or being embarrassed in front of people you may or may not know. It's always about power and who has it.

You're one of my favorite mods, RandomMan, but seeing you post with that same line every time and knowing how revered your perspective is…it's always the most disappointing part of these kinds of threads. And in stark contrast to everything else you post, you appear a fool to me.

The scary thing is that it's incredibly easy to frame someone they don't like by adding illegal content to my computer!

Whelp, the FBI knows all my fetishes and how much of a weeaboo I am. Hopefully, they wont interrogate me about anime and porn since I have bad memory and an attention span of a gold fish.

What about the people who do have things they want to hide?
just look at the example below. Some people have nude photos they want to hide.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/the-fappening-celebgate

Why would an organisation like the FBI feel the need to spread your nudes?

Kinda not seeing the connection.

Thank you for allowing more and more pedophiles to distribute child pornography.

Next, will you allow a criminal who murdered or stole to get away with it, since it's their private lives the government are intruding on?

You didn't finish reading my post i guess.
"And before you say anything, look at this
http://www.therichest.com/luxury/most-expensive/the-most-expensive-magazine-covers-ever-shot/10/
a single picture was sold for $14million.
Do you think if someone had the power to steal some celeb images and sell them for millions, that they wouldn’t do it?"

Just look at Edward Snowden, what was stopping him for doing someone more deviant and more self-rewarding like selling info he got to private companies?

Do you think if someone had the power to steal some celeb images and sell them for millions, that they wouldn’t do it?

Still shouldn't worry the average joe, like you and myself.

so basically,
"doesn't effect me, so why should i care?"
how selfish.

Are you actually trying to defend the people who might have illegal content on their computer?

no? where are you getting that idea from?
Unless having nude pictures of yourself recently became illegal.

What I mean is that I don't understand why anyone could be affected unless they had illegal content on their computer.

A rogue FBI agent could hack several celebrities computers and steal their photos, then sell them. Or even steal and sell company secret.

The FBI and NSA are trying to make backdoors and basicly make hacking any computer easy, well an employee could use that for their own advantage, and steal celebrities or company's private things from their computers and sell them for millions of dollars.

And they would most likely be punished for it.

Also, just because you can doesn't mean you're going too.

I mean think about it this way, would you rather let the government catch thousands more criminals, or stop one or two "rogue agents" from selling a celebrity nude photo?

P.S I am against the FBI looking into files of citizens of other countries, but in general I think that this "privacy invasion" is more beneficial than harmful.

A rogue FBI agent could hack several celebrities computers and steal their photos, then sell them. Or even steal and sell company secret.

Ditch the blinkered view, son. I am not being selfish here, you're just being far fetched.

Let's look at your celebrity example: A single picture sold for 14 million. Ok that's a lot of money, but let's run it down. First you need to be one of the most popular celebrities out there, and second you need to be in posession of a picture with that value, and lastly celebrity status is temporarily so then you also need to be in a time period where a picture has that high a value.

That's like 1 person out of every 10 million (or more) who should be worried according to your reasons. And even then you still need the bad luck that this one dude in the FBI is taking his chances by selling a baby picture to a magazine, which is an extremely stupid idea for an FBI employee because surely an organisation like the FBI can backtrace which employee went overboard and send them to court. So what I'm saying to that is that the 1 celebrity who already has to deal with the paparazzi daily is no reason to make 9,999,999 others who aren't affected by your example worry.

I understand there is concern to have with giving the FBI more power, but I simply find your example of celebrity pictures very poor. Elaborate more on your other arguments, instead of continuing with this one.

Supreme the Lurking Monitor Wrote:

If I have nothing to hide, then you have no reason to search. The FBI already has the power of standard search warrants if they have probable cause. They don’t need to have any more power than that. And I doubt other countries would take too kindly to another country’s law enforcement snooping through their citizens’ computers whenever they felt like it. Kinda like what American law enforcement claims other countries are doing to America all the time. This is never about being made a fool of, or being embarrassed in front of people you may or may not know. It’s always about power and who has it.

Power distribution and "oh no the FBI can access my files" are two different topics, so I'm treating them as different.

Should the FBI deserve more power than they already have? Perhaps not and I can understand opponents to the idea. But so far I haven't seen many good arguments going against it yet. And I find the argument of celebrity pictures or this one nude someone might have on his harddrive too far fetched and stupid to call reasons for worry.

If people instead wish to discuss power distrubtion, the pros and cons of giving the FBI this power, and whether or not they then deserve this power, then I am going to discuss exactly that. But the OP of this thread, and the replies to my post, all looked at the topic from a view of personal files. So that is exactly what I replied to.

You’re one of my favorite mods, RandomMan, but seeing you post with that same line every time and knowing how revered your perspective is…it’s always the most disappointing part of these kinds of threads. And in stark contrast to everything else you post, you appear a fool to me.

First, thanks for the compliment. Second, there wasn't much reason for me to post other lines until now because he repeated himself. He repeated his celebrity picture argument multiple times, and I find it far fetched that I would change my opinion over hearing the same thing that didn't make me change my point a second time.

Now there was one thing though I would like him to elaborate on: "The FBI and NSA and who ever creating backdoors and such also makes it easier for outside hackers to come in and steal info also."

I am no expert on hacking, but if he can elaborate on that and show how giving the FBI more power also makes it easier for the average hacker to access your personal files, then I can understand how giving them such a power might not be smart.

I hope this post satisfied what you expected from me.

So do you think giving the FBI and NSA more power won't increase the number of Edward Snowden type people, or even worse, people that will use their power for self-reward?

We already know hackers still images of celebrities and secrets of companies, so why would a member of the FBI or NSA not do it, especially since its so much easier for them?
We already know they do it, just look at snowden! He stole secrets and released them, and probably even sold some things.

This isn't "it could happen" because it HAS happened.