Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

ITT: Discuss and debate the legality of drugs in your country of residence and around the world.

Possible topics of interest:

• How do drug laws affect you personally?
• Should marijuana be legalized?
• Should harder drugs be legalized?
• How should the government regulate (if any regulation at all is to take place) drugs if they become legal?
• The morality surrounding drug use – should the government promote spiritual and physical wholesomeness? Is it morally correct for the state to make a person's health decisions for them?

I'll start: New Zealand has a sweeping ban on cannabis, including medicinal cannabis. You can get slapped with a fine ranging from $50-$500 depending on how much you're carrying; trace amounts of it will probably get you the lower end, while getting caught with an eighth (i.e. one-eighth of an ounce, 3-4 joints) will leave you a few hundred dollars poorer.

If you're manufacturing or distributing it, however, you can get sent to jail for 10-18ish years, which means that weed growers are handled about as harshly as rapists (who get up to 20 years).

I am a supporter of the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party as well as a recreational user of the grass, so my stance on drugs should be obvious.

i don't really think, and i doubt any american thinks otherwise; that america's "War on drugs" is going too well, or even making progress.
And i don't believe america's pop drug culture (the people who say 420, and make twitter stuffs about smoking weed, and crack. when in vipers words "you cowards don't even smoke crack" is helping the situation as well.
Instead, the war on drugs, if its to even be considered a war; and not a losing streak, should in my opinion focus more on educating the public on the harmful effects of drugs (like having a group of people who used drugs for more than 30 years scare highschoolers into dropping their joints).
But even then, some drugs should still be legalized, marijuana could be a potential drug to be legalized; i mean its relatively harmless compared to zombifying drugs like "krokodil" don't look that up extremely nsfl.
We as americans (well maybe only me) should learn from the examples other nations provide as well, the netherlands, and many others provide excellent examples as to how to handle the situation.
And states like colorado, and washington have already legalized marijuana (well to a extent)
But seeing how backwards congress is, i doubt any progress could be made anytime soon.

But on the other hand, New Zealands control over marijuana is pretty incompetent. Just about everybody in all the towns I lived in, from the Auckland to the east coast either smokes weed or knows somebody who does. It doesn't seem to be that hard to get or even grow in your own backyard

All my friends smoke it casually like it's already legal. There just doesn't seem to be much our cops can do about it. They have to focus on growers and can't really crack down on the whole nation getting stoned

Frankly I think the 'war on drugs' (a.k.a 'Operation: Weed is bad because reasons') is another one of those western things that NZ copies to try and look cool in front of the other nations. But it's not a ball game we can really play. With our limited resources, we're better of just focusing on the drug education. Schools make it pretty clear what the hazards of marijuana abuse are. Every kid knows the risks. I've seen more people decide to be weed-free based on what schools taught, than any preventative law

Even then, I've seen more evidence that marijuana is less physically damaging than tobacco and alcohol. How dangerous it is compared to even off-shelf pain killers is disputable. Also much of the effects they taught in school are greatly over-exaggerated as if one joint will give you permanent brain damage when in fact it's responsible for….not a whole lot.

All this energy we put into controlling weed may as well go into controlling alcohol instead which, given NZ's track record for drinking, probably has the biggest K/D ratio of all the things that could possibly kill you here

I think it's not the substance itself we should worry about but how people use it. Teach people how to use it right any maybe it wont be so bad. And perhaps if it was legal we could provide provisions for safer, cheaper weed, cut down on criminal undergrounds, take power away from our mobs and release better knowledge of proper weed use.

I'm also vastly more interested in the bunch of other industrial uses that weed has.

Me, personally? Never tried the stuff for the same reason that I never smoke at all, but I really don't care if it's legal or not. Wouldn't change a thing around here IMO. But I hope that if weed is legalized then it gets utilized in a productive way. If ya'll just wanna get baked; Meh.

TL;DR: Indifferent to weed.

Note: I'm specifically talking about marijuana use. For other drugs such as ones that really should be illegal, I'll address later

I think it's fairly stupid to ban weed when alcohol has just as severe--if not worse--side effects and is perfectly legal. If nothing else, legalizing it can make millions in taxes. The only real issue would be in trying to determine "drunk" driving regulations as marijuana is much harder to detect than alcohol.

As for the "harder" drugs, they should remain banned. The risks involving them--whether overdosing or violence--are just far too great for the paltry reward.

Right, so I come from Mexico. You might say we have a bad history with drugs. You would be right, and also an expert in understatement. However, instead of the law comming down like a hammer on any user, it is suprisingly lenient on that, allowing things like 5g of marijuana or 40 mg of methamphetamine- for personal use, of course. If you try to sell drugs, however, its your ass. I dont do drugs, so even then it does not really affect me.

At the end of the day, legalization, prohibition, something in between, the only thing I care about is taking away the power from the criminals who profit from them. Whatever the option would be for that, it has my support.

@xTSGx

As for the “harder” drugs, they should remain banned. The risks involving them--whether overdosing or violence--are just far too great for the paltry reward.

What about the argument that legalizing something has very little, if any, effect on the rate of its usage? There is evidence that the legalization of marijuana in Colorado has barely affected use rates of the drug:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2014/07/10/how-is-marijuana-legalization-going-so-far-the-price-of-pot-peace-looks-like-a-bargain/

"Legalization has not resulted in a lot of new pot smokers."

Also, further research from NORML:

http://norml.org/aboutmarijuana/item/marijuana-decriminalization-its-impact-on-use-2

"In sum, there is little evidence that decriminalization of marijuana use necessarily leads to a substantial increase in marijuana use."

These stubborn use rates may not translate over to harder drugs, but the point is that there is little hard evidence that legalization necessarily leads to increased consumption. Besides, even if consumption were to increase slightly as a result of legal liberalization, the amount of money saved by the government (less spending on prisons, the justice system etc.) would make it more than worthwhile.

Personally I hate weed, I don't think it should be illegal but I hate the stuff. My friend was peer pressured into it among other thing and got in with some of the cool kids (the people at school who didn't give a fuck about anything, and did drugs to be cool and relied on them for fun). Eventually he went from my best friend to just a friend I see about sometimes. I'm not gonna say it was a gateway drug but he did move on to do harder drugs and drink heavily at the age of 16 (more peer pressure). I do believe the stuff helped change him though. As I said I hate the stuff and refuse to try it because I believe it's a stupid drug and that people refuse to say it's actually not as good as it is made out to be. They guy never reached his full potential and barely made it through school into college. I think that him being 16 and in college while doing that stuff is going to cause him a bit of trouble.

That being said it doesn't harm people, and if they let cigarettes. I believe they have a right to do it, even if it's stupid. But harder drugs should stay illegal, they are dangerous and it is in the best interests to punish those who decided to do them and do anything else that will have a negative impact on peoples lives.

I basically believe in what Spider said. I believe in the right of people to use whatever drugs they please (I'm still sort of mixed on the intense drugs like meth and cocaine on legalization though) because it only affects that person mostly and as long as these drugs are mostly regulated as much as possible not much real harm will come to surrounding people and society. However, as Spider said, I will still continue to encourage people to not use these drugs or start them at all, even weaker ones such as marijuana. They're all dangerous no matter what the stoners try to tell you. It's not completely harmless. Of course, it's not extremely harmful and probably less than even just alcohol, but basic scientific studies of the drug show that it does include tar and carcinogens when smoked and of course smoking anything is dangerous, even if it's rosemary or something stupid like that. The stoners also love to bring up that when ingested, it is completely harmless and only has good effects, but the carcinogens are still slightly present, they're just not as prevalent as when smoked. Also, as Spider said, not everyone is subject to this, but there's the mental effects that need to be taken into account. Some people legitimately are casual weed smokers and can lead a good life, I know a few, but as with anything that feels good, especially something with THC like weed that directly creates dopamine, not everyone can resist its addictive traits.

Still, I'm all for regulated legalization and stuff, I just recommend against using them, and in my imaginary perfect world, we wouldn't need the law because no one would ever do these drugs, but this is the real world and people do so I don't think it should be a criminal punishment at all for something so petty and doesn't directly lead to violence.

I felt like posting on this thread when I first saw it, but I forgot. Anyways, I used to have a pretty carefree outlook on the "safer" drugs such as Marijuana and Ecstasy. I have since changed in my views. I had a very bad experience earlier this year when I mixed alcohol, Ecstasy, and Marijuana over the course of a couple hours at EDC. It wasn't my first time messing around like that, so I didn't think much of it. Physically I was fine, but I had a severe panic attack. Whats more, months later, I started having the same feeling every time I would get into a situation that I couldn't easily escape, such as sitting in the theater. My pulse would go up, my feet and hands would tingle, and I would have this extreme urge to pee even though I didn't need to. Then a couple weeks ago, I don't know what happened, but I became a nervous wreck. I was having multiple panic attacks a day and I couldn't function. I would sob uncontrollably and was bombarded with suicidal thoughts. luckily I was able to overcome it with therapy sessions and help from my parents. I still am struggling with being able to drink as it brings back memories, but I had whiskey yesterday, so I will probably be able to at least enjoy that. I am not sure why I was able to control it so fast, but I am certainly happy I did.
Anyways, enough about that. I think that Marijuana is a safe drug for the most part, so by all means legalize it, but that's where I draw the line. I have heard way too many people, including myself, say Ecstasy is a relatively safe drug. But now I am not so sure. Honestly, at this point, I would never recommend anyone to ever try drugs. Its fucking dumb and isn't worth it.

I'm very anti-smoking of any kind (marijuana especially), as it claimed the lives of two of my close relatives. And yes, you could make the argument that "if alcohol/smoking tobacco is legal, which in some cases is worse than smoking marijuana, then why shouln't marijuana be?" But this is essentially adding a lesser problem to an overall problem; it just makes the problem worse.
Not smoking is healthier than smoking, and that's a fact. Therefore I see no reason it should be legalised aside from strictly medical use. The law is just doing it's job by trying to maintain a healthier population.

As for non-inhaled drugs, I have less of a stance on those. These can also be fairly bad, depending on the drug, however I would have less of a problem with these being legalised, if regulated correctly.

1) You seem to be equating the risks of marijuana with the risks of tobacco, which immediately raises red flags. For instance, lung disease, the leading cause of tobacco-related death, has virtually no correlation with marijuana usage.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.29036/abstract
http://norml.org/news/2013/07/11/study-marijuana-smoking-poses-relatively-small-risk-to-lungs-associated-with-far-fewer-adverse-effects-than-tobacco
http://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1513/AnnalsATS.201302-034ED#.VHmEKtKUceh

2) If it were the job of the government to maintain a healthier adult population, then it would mean sweeping bans on fast food and soda (linked with obesity and heart disease, the leading cause of death in America). Wouldn't it also be a good idea, in such a scenario, to ban extreme sports and set mandatory exercise regimes? Also, as you said: alcohol and tobacco are both significantly less dangerous than marijuana, so there would be grounds for banning them as well.

3) >_Therefore I see no reason it should be legalised aside from strictly medical use._

End the extremely expensive and ineffective War on Drugs, put cartels out of business, curb gang violence, tackle the for-profit prison industry, bring in billions each year for state and federal governments, etc…

I will rest my case with saying I'm Dutch and the stereotype should be known.

Coffeeshops exist all around the country, and you can legally purchase and smoke softdrugs like weed there. Hell, a city on 15 minutes driving from my place has 3 coffeeshops, one which is even in a top 5 list of best coffeeshops. Growing and distributing it is still illegal, and we do have a ban on basically all harddrugs.

Thing is, it works. Because people are able to get certain soft drugs legally, the amount of hard drug addicts is significantly lower over here. Why use dangerous illegal stuff, when you can enjoy a blunt legally? The only problem it brings are "drug tourists," people from bordering countries who go to us to buy drugs, which isn't allowed as they have to follow the laws from the countries they live in.

I don't smoke it myself. Like New Sealand, everyone here knows someone who regularly smokes a joint.

Particle Mare wrote:

I’ll start: New Zealand has a sweeping ban on cannabis, including medicinal cannabis. You can get slapped with a fine ranging from $50-$500 depending on how much you’re carrying
I am a recreational user of the grass.

Send nudes or I will contact the authorities.

I have the opinion that drugs and alcohol should be illegal.

Alcohol is no different to weed as they are both depressants (decreases reaction time). The problem I have with drugs is what it makes people do. In some countries there are high crime rates simply because of alcohol itself. When you drink alcohol, your judgement becomes poor and this can cause people to do heinous crimes.

"you should respect my right to drink"

Well tough **** so NO.

I live in the UK.

How do drug laws affect you personally?
Considering that I don't take drugs, it shouldn't personally affect me at all. However, knowing how the American police force carries itself out and the fact they can pretty much act with almost complete immunity, you never know.

Should marijuana be legalized?
Absolutely. Regulate it like alcohol.

Should harder drugs be legalized?
Decriminalized, it's senseless to throw such drug users in prison.

The morality surrounding drug use – should the government promote spiritual and physical wholesomeness?
Government? Wholesomeness? 40 keks!

Is it morally correct for the state to make a person’s health decisions for them?
The government is more than welcome to make suggestions, but by no means should it ultimately make the decisions.

I think marijuana should be legal, and over here in the Netherlands, it is, like everyone probably knows.

If you think it should be illegal because of it's bad for your lungs, then sigarettes should be too.
If you think it should be illegal becasue of the effects, alcohol should be too, because that has arguably more effect.

It's also not the goverment's task to baby-sit us.
If I want to eat at McDonald's every day I can do that, if someone wants to smoke weed once a week, they should be able to do that as well.

And it's not like alcohol or marijuana are that dangerous. If you go overboard with it, yes, but to illegalize something over that, is going overboard as well.

Weed should be legal.

When I'm high the only thing I want to murder is a packet of chips.