Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

Well, I can't prove you wrong.

Welp, it was fun while it lasted. See you after the next sus…oh right, there won't be a next one.

This is serious debate.

I don't know why this topic can't be considered a serious subject, when it IS a serious subject.

I see no problem with the thread. Claiming it was created only for the use of stirring shit would be betraying what this board is for, to stir shit and debate. Deleting it, locking it, or suspending the user would be a cop-out on discussing it simply because it is a sensitive topic.

I say let the thread go on.

You know, a lot of subjects are quite touchy, like religion and politics. But, with good intentions and the right set of people, we can have a civilize discussion with those two topics.
But, you know, OP obviously does not have good intentions. Plus, he lacks sources to back up his claims. Point is, he's baiting people. It's clearly obvious to anyone who can read.

Also, in my book, he's breaking rule number 6 on the KYM forum rules. You know 'Be Friendly".

We want our forums to be welcoming place for both old and new users. Please keep your comments and posts constructive and considerate in tone

I say we lock this thread. Since nothing good will come out of this.

The topic is valid as any other topic in this board, so there is no reason to lock this thread. The discussion is still open.

But, OP previous threads shows that he post this stuff only to start a flamewar or to troll us. Users knows that Serious Debate is for serious debate, others choose to use it to troll people.

What I'm saying is; the thread and the topic are fine. The only problem is OP, who's trying troll us.

I'll let this thread stay open for the time being and allow people to discuss or rebute the claim if they feel inclined. Either for informing the real truth or to ruin OP's fun. Have at it

Troll thread or not, this is open to debate.

Before we get into this argument, what is the definition of "Rape Culture" that we are using. What does Rape culture represent? Who is involved in Rape Culture? Can it even be classified as culture?

Culture usually refers to the traditions and common ideas of groups of people. Do rapists have common traditions and ideas that they pass between each other? Or are they individuals? Or can it be that anyone who references rape becomes part of Rape culture?

A discussion of Rape culture would be fine, but lets be real here, this is hat wearing man we're talking about. This is just him doing the same shit we've suspended him for before. By all means, discuss the topic, it's a big issue and we don't want to avoid big issues, but I don't think we should be giving him a free pass from now on because of the new board.

I say to leave the thread open. OP might just be being OP, but the topic can easily be turned into something else more stimulating.

If he wants to make it into something that isn't a more serious debate though, then he's derailing the topic based on the board he put it in. For the time being, he can try to troll and get warned/suspended or use bad logic and get shot down. The thread should moderate itself fairly easily.

It's the devil sign, so it must be fake!!!!!!!

In all seriousness, while I doubt what ol' hat man is saying (as usual) I do want to see this one unlocked for now just to have a discussion about it, specifically hat wearing man's defense.

good god hes at it again. Whelp nothing to do but wait i could predict whats going to happen next but that come off as being a dick so.

Actually it's a myth because rape is illegal and is looked down upon by just about everyone.
A 'rape culture' wouldn't outlaw rape. That's why it's called a rape culture.

That's like saying there is no drug culture in most 1st world countries. Just because it's a minority doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. That being said it's not nearly as prevelant as feminists make it out to be.

um dude just because there is a culture doesn't mean it has to be lawful, i mean haven't you ever heard of weed culture, ya know that thing that just about every rap artist supports, and is considered cool by most media. And as far as i know weed is still illegal in most parts of the country.

Alright, let me be more clear.
'Rape culture' as a term began in US prisons, because in prison, rape is largely ignored or otherwise excused. It was a term coined by people suffering under that.
Feminists co-opted the term to describe various things, most of which they cannot agree on.
However, the drug culture analogy doesn't work, because some men are killed for being even accused of rape. That doesn't really happen with drugs- people aren't murdered simply because they might be smoking weed.
Even the ones who aren't killed, their lives are often ruined by the accusation, even when it's revealed to have been a lie. It's a permanent mark against them in the eyes of society, even if they are completely innocent.
If western society even remotely resembled a 'rape culture', why would that happen?
The only people who of rape are rapists themselves- people with no regard for others. There's no club, there's no society, it's just individuals with severe issues (Another reason the drug culture analogy falls flat). They know what they're doing is wrong, but they do it anyway.

Personally, I think the modern "rape culture" is a load of crap. Especially the culture part. In western society, what is the way to show someone is evil? Have them rape a character. The good guys kill people all the time--even murder in cold blood--but you will never see a hero rape someone and them remain the "hero." It's regarded as being one of the "ultimate evils," right up there with killing a baby or beating up an old lady.

The idea that certain judicial cases prove it is just silly. It's sadly true that there are criminal cases that don't go well--but that's true for every type of crime, from rape to murder to theft. The justice system will never be 100% perfect. There's always going to be "miscarriages of justice" that happen. The only thing it proves is that justice isn't perfect.

"Rape Culture" would be a more serious subject if Feminists did not trivialize rape by using it as a blanket term for anything that makes someone "uncomfortable".

I think that there are two fundamental misunderstandings going on in this thread. One is the definition of the term and the other is the scope. By rape culture feminists mean an environment where the seriousness of rape is undermined or the victim is blamed. Basically an environment that makes it easier for the rapist to justify their actions. When people blame/mock the victim it shifts the blame from the rapist to the raped, for example. One place where rape culture exists is in college fraternities, which brings me to my next point.

When people talk about rape culture, they're not accusing the entirety of western society. No one is saying that "Western culture is a rape culture". They are referring to specific subsets of western society.

That being said, I do agree with Duke Crabtree. Many feminists unwittingly trivialize rape by reclassifying everything as rape. It would be a lot easier for people to take them seriously if they didn't classify every time a girl feels uncomfortable as rape.

I think Tchefuncte Bonaparte is right on the money there.

I don't know what some ultra-super-killmen-feminazis think. But among the sensible feminists I know; the concept of Rape culture (in feminist terms), allured mostly to all the victim blaming (regardless of where the origin of "rape culture" stems from) and whatever cultural thinking that could be causing that victim blaming

And the victim blaming wasn't a load of utter crap. That was happening. In some places in the world it was so bad that exposing your cleavage was a crime punishable by rape. THAT was rape culture

Granted, instances of 'rape culture' was only happening in specific circumstances and not globally across all of western society, but I don't think anybody was saying that it was either….except of course those ultra-super-killmen types but who listens to them?

I think Rape culture exists. But in varying degrees and locations.

But where rape culture doesn't exist is when gamers use the term 'rape' as a term for game domination and not a sexual act. That's not rape culture at all. That's just gamers being their typical lewd selves

Rape culture also does not exist when games and artworks depict women with huge tits. That's just artists being regular men who like tits

When such things are claimed to be rape culture, that's when rape is being trivialized as mentioned above and that makes everyone want to disregard the entire term and its meaning…I hope that this doesn't make people potentially disregard the original problem

HEIL 'MURICA!

Agreed, except for the bit about gamers using rape to mean "domination". It trivializes rape by giving people the impression that even minor things like getting dominated in TF2 is rape, and that rape is as minor as getting dominated in a video game.

As for a detailed explanation of rape culture and how it hurts everyone, RationalWiki does a much better job than I can.

The idea is that only complete monsters will rape, which is why it's such an effective way to show how evil a character is.

When a person rapes someone else in real life, we all know that the rapist is a person and not a heartless villain. Nobody is. Only "true evil" will rape unprovoked, so the hatred gets directed at the victim for doing something to provoke the rapist. It's a combination of disbelief and denial.

@HorribleGhost

I am a gamer.

I take rape very, very seriously.

Raping people, under any circumstance is a despicable criminal offense, and my opinion of how horrible it is, is not made any less when I joke about my team in TF2 getting "raped" by a squad of better players winning.

Just because I used the term as a trivial comedic analogy to something else; does not mean I think the entire original subject matter of term is trivial.

What people need to realize is that CONTEXT MATTERS. My use of terminology in one small specific context does not translate to my overall impression of the term in a greater context.

Alright folks, time for some shit posting opinions and incoherent rage.

The entire whole of the term rape 'culture' is just a train wreck of retarded people saying a bunch of words hoping it will make a couple new words, since obviously people whom spew it out don't exactly know what a culture is. A Culture is a common group, it is like the difference between someone whom is German and someone whom is French or even how someone is Scottish or Irish, people have varying cultures depending on where they live and the customs/traditions they follow.

This has been repeated, so I am going to say this as finalizer, rape isn't apart of culture and it rarely never was. It is seen with such seriousness already. Just because people make fun of it or someone doesn't take it as seriously doesn't mean we trivialize it in any shape or form, and it is likely if we see it we will despise it and seek out punishment, as a christian culture we are often appalled by it (By christian culture, I do mean most european cultures really since christian culture tends to be extremely icky about sex in general).

What infuriates me is when people demote culture for some bastardization, especially any culture. People ignore powerful cool things like language, food, customs, traditions, their differing politics and history and go after social issues, many in which are taken out of context or worse.

Just because people make fun of it or someone doesn’t take it as seriously doesn’t mean we trivialize it in any shape or form

I'm pretty sure not taking it seriously is the very definition of trivializing the issue. Also the way you word it implies some random inconsequential people don't take rape seriously, but in reality there are too many situations of schools, courts, and police not taking rape claims seriously. xTSGx makes the fair point that this is more an issue of a bad justice system rather than a "rape culture" but my point still stands.

Hmph, maybe your right.

However, to me a lot of this shit is very isolated instances, and the opinion of 'victim blaming' isn't a very popular motion either. I have heard and participated in dirty jokes between co-workers, but the entire 'they had it coming' thing seems like something I only ever see within the news (Which of course if the News was always right, there would be a murder at every other half mile and a protest in-between).

As a society and by our laws, rape is a extreme taboo which has become even more so as time goes on. People don't exactly realize this, but less then a hundred years ago, the definition of rape was radically different as it is today. Historically, we are cracking down more on rapists, and all this talk of how we are becoming more or less a 'rape culture' is just silly.

@Crimson Locks
I disagree on the basis that most people can tell a joke or game from reality. Otherwise you could say that the game he was playing when he said it trivialize murder. Just because things aren't taken seriously when they are in a game or used in figurative language, doesnt mean they aren't taken seriously in real life.

@Chickenhound the Cruel
Again you have to take in the scope. No one is saying "we are becoming a rape culture". What people are saying is that there is a rape culture within western society. Just like there is a gun culture, a drug culture, a gang culture, etc. These cultures don't have to be accepted by every single person on one hemisphere for them to exist.

@Tchefuncte Bonaparte:
I was more focusing on the "not taking rape seriously" part rather than the joking about rape part. I honestly don't have much of an opinion on rape jokes. I personally usually don't find them funny but humor is very subjective and I think as a whole they don't harm us as a society all that much (at least not enough for so many people to make such a stink over). I may have read the context wrong but when he said "doesn't take it as seriously" I read it as a scenario where someone doesn't take something like a rape confession seriously.

We doin' this again? Alright, well, here's all I have to say on the matter.

Sure it's unoriginal for a guy on the internet to be posting George Carlin to express his opinion on a topic, but it's fitting here, and fuck, when the hell did I care about originality?

All penis-in-vagina sex is rape, u shitlords!1!!!1!one! (except if the guy is hot, lol)