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We're going to be making the "title" and "tags" fields mandatory for image uploads starting at midnight tonight for a trial period. Hopefully this will encourage proper tagging without being too much of an annoyance. Let a staff member know if you notice any issues and feel free to chime in with any thoughts/suggestions here.

HOLY FUCK AND I THOUGHT I COULDN'T LOVE YOU ANY MORE.

Yes! I've been waiting for this to happen. Thanks guys!~

Mfw I try to image search a tagless Image.

Finally, everyone can tag their shit.

Is titles necessary though? I understand encouraging proper tagging but I don't see how titles are related.

Well it's about damn time. Not sure about the titles though. And what will happen to images without titles and/or tags after the deadline is reached?

I don't think titling an image should really be mandatory. Any extra info aside from the image's tags can be expressed in its notes. Titling an image is a lot less common than tagging it, and it's plausible that forcing users to title their images might end up slowing media uploads.
Mandatory tags is a great idea, though. I'm glad it's finally getting implemented.

Have to agree with this. Titles are less important in the scheme of things, while Tagging is important for organizing the database. It's not a big deal really, but it being mandatory is a bit silly.

Titles are important so it doesn't show up as "Image 923843" and helps it get picked up by off-site search engines.

reaction:approval reaction:celebrate

Have to say I'm a little cautious about mandatory titles. Obviously, things like Advice Animals you can easily title with the text in the image. Some other stuff, like random reaction images and what not, might be a bit more difficult. While titling an image is important, I think tagging is more so.

Also, I guess I'll leave this bit of advice to some people: mona_jpn often tags fanart with the title of the work. Many times you can find the source with Google Reverse Image serach, or if on the Japanese part of the web (ie Pokemon images if I had to bet) Sauce Nao

I think requiring titles is a bad idea, if anyone cares what I think anymore.

Well this doesn't affect me at all, as I already title and tag every image I upload. Still, it's good to see measures taken to make it more common.

I'm sure we would care if you cared to further explain why you think that.

Based on my experience, though I certainly don't know exactly how image searching works, a title can sometimes make it more likely that what you're looking for will show up. This is usually not the case for an image that you'd see frontpaged that essentially is a joke (because the title will often be more associated with said joke than carrying any key info), but something more general and concrete. So perhaps… a third tier of description could be useful? Split the general "title" into a "personal title" and "descriptive title", only the latter of which being required? Eh, not sure.

To be honest, I was hoping for tags like "lasnflasknfaklñsnfa" but I haven't seen anything like that outside of three or two cases.

This leads me to the next question. If this gets implemented permanently, does that mean that we can finally reinforce the "Please tag your images" rule?

I've noted something else, the number of images uploaded into the database dropped quite a bit in the last hours. We went from 20+ images uploaded in 1 hour to 3 or 4 in the same range of time.

Like usual, introducing a change of this magnitude caused it. However, I think this is something transitory and while it affects the site somehow, I believe users are going to adapt quite fast to it.

My point is, please don't remove it because of the low influx of images we are having. We've been waiting, and needing, something like this since forever. I also think this will improve a lot the database in terms of organization. So yeah, please keep this system.

So I just noticed the bit about "Don’t use the entry name as a tag". This is not a good idea, unless you have a way to make the gallery name something that is possible to search in addition to other search fields. For example (as I previosly pointed out here) search results for Levi Pokemon. Notice that one of the results is in the gallery Cleaning Levi. Now: search results for Cleaning Levi Pokemon. Notice that there are no results. That one image is not tagged as “Cleaning Levi” therefore it is not a search result, even though it is in the gallery “Cleaning Levi”

In addition, as Brucker explained in this post it is easy to find non-tagged/poorly tagged images in a gallery when they have a consistent tag.

Don't get me wrong, if the entry name is the only tag used, it is useless. However, it is still a good idea to have it in addition with other tags to quickly navigate and find images, because the system only knows to search by the gallery title when used as a stand alone, unless the gallery title is in the tags. Maybe change it to "don't only tag as the entry name".

Ahh.. Can we also have a "source" option?

I care, Brucker. But I think Don justified it through searches offsite.

Alex Mercer wrote:

Ahh.. Can we also have a “source” option?

I would like to see that as well, given it is a documentation site of sorts. And it's pretty easy to add for the uploader: a simple copy and paste of a URL and perhaps the title of the page. I guess it's just a matter of adding the field. The description field is still an option, I suppose?

@Title Debate: I concur that it is justifiable thorough offsite search results, but is there anyway to make the “Image #923843” also appear in the title or sidebar (I know it already appears in the url)? It would also be helpful if the image could be automatically tagged and saveable by this image number.

Typing "knowyourmeme.com/photos/908031" in the address bar will automatically get you to the image, but when you search an image, "908031" won't bring up anything and saving an image currently names it as "f2a.jpeg" due to the way the servers name/store images.

Can we also have a “source” option?

I've wanted this too. Sometimes it is hard to get a source, but having to type:

Source – ”website”:url

(or when that won't work, the html version) gets time consuming. Having a field that was "website title" and "website address" would speed image uploading by 10-20% for me.

I don't know why you would need to search by id since you can get there by url like you said, but you can use the __id field.

I might be able to make some changes to the way images and videos are indexed so you won't need to include the entry name as a tag for the example that was mentioned.

For the Hentai Quotes gallery (the gallery that the vast majority of my image posts go, as I find them hilarious, and it's really easy to find good ones that aren't already posted) mandatory sourcing in that manner would get in the way more than it helps, as we aren't allowed to link to explicit sites.

In addition, even for other entries, the location of an individual image that someone stumbled across somewhere may not have any kind of useful source information to provide. While I do think far more images need to be sourced than are currently, and any image where a useful source exists should certainly be sourced, I don't think mandatory sourcing is a good idea; Not every image even has a findable source worth anything, and discluding those that don't will definitely have a negative impact on the rate of uploads.

Yes, please, can we have it? That would be very useful for obvious reasons.

I don’t think mandatory sourcing is a good idea; Not every image even has a findable source worth anything

I have to agree. I try to source, and when a new meme hits, it is really easy to find the source. However, sometimes we make entries about things that are years old, when finding source is near impossible, or the original artwork has since been removed. A meme example that someone on 4chan spent 5 seconds on in MS paint is much less likely to find a stable source than an artist on an art site. Likewise, that MS paint photoshop is much less likely to try a C&D due to an uncredited work.

Also, there are a lot of different styles of sourcing. Mona's system, while the most time consuming, is the most through, usually listing the artist and website, linking to both the art page and the artist's page. Unraveler's system lists the site and the artist, linking to the art work. These two are good for giving source information in case the original work is removed, however, most people don't want to take that much time, and will either link to "source" or leave the raw URL.

If there was a way to get an auto sourcing system (I know mona mentioned something about this here) or at least offer something that reminds users to try and source when possible, I think that could work.

Still, for the time being, if James can fix the issue I brought up, I'm fine as is.

This is one of the decisions that I support. Makes searching things easier. I don't know if making titles mandatory is a bit overkill or not. Sometimes the image speaks for itself and you have to make a witty comment.

At least this comes after introducing image upload notices for more tricky entries which was needed at least a year ago.

I'm still not sold on forced titles, but eh if people can adapt sure why not. I think forced titles will be more useful if we update the media search so that issues like Jacob pointed out are removed.

Loli wrote:

This leads me to the next question. If this gets implemented permanently, does that mean that we can finally reinforce the “Please tag your images” rule?

Wouldn't we have to remove it instead? I mean, you can't enforce what's already enforced through the system.

Cipher wrote:

For the Hentai Quotes gallery (the gallery that the vast majority of my image posts go, as I find them hilarious, and it’s really easy to find good ones that aren’t already posted) mandatory sourcing in that manner would get in the way more than it helps, as we aren’t allowed to link to explicit sites.

A source section isn't something you can always enforce. Some of our users make their own meme stuff and upload it to the galleries (you can't exactly source it as: "me") and sites like 4chan are hightly likely not the source save rare cases.

So if you're not forced to link to the source, you can still just place the name of the hentai in the title/notes.

RandomMan wrote:

you can still just place the name of the hentai in the title/notes

Indeed. And I do list the title and author in the notes of all my Hentai Quotes images. I'm just saying that a mandatory source section in the image posting screen in the same vein as the mandatory titles and tags wouldn't work for a lot of images posted on the site for various reasons.

Who said sourcing the images would need to be mandatory? We could always just add it in, but make it optional, and make it editable so a scrapbookers and media mods could add in missing sources.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! I don't really agree on titles being required though but I 100% agree on tags being required.

Mandatory titling really can't work, some things wouldn't have any useful titles.
I don't even really get the offsite search justification either, to be honest…

The tagging though is a great idea, just want to comment on the entry name thing. I tag my images with the entry name AND all the various other actually useful tags, simply because I want to cover all my bases. That's not what you're talking though, is it?

Also, source can't be forced because some images would have no source or at least no useful source, though I would dispute Cipher's point, the better idea for that particular issue would be to simply dump that anti-link rule, no need for it, those links aren't at all harmful as long as you give proper warning and it seems to just make people miserable with no practical purpose at all. Though I suppose this is a discussion for another time, though.

I agree, titles shouldn't be required because of what you said.

For sources, some images don't have a proper source, the source is hard to find, or it was uploaded straight from the computer to the site (like when a user makes something relevant to what ever entry they're uploading to).

Indeed, hit the nail on the head there.

How about just the tag thing, instead?

Seconding all the praise for mandatory tags/criticism for mandatory titles. Also, when's this trial period gonna end?

I would dispute Cipher’s point, the better idea for that particular issue would be to simply dump that anti-link rule, no need for it, those links aren’t at all harmful as long as you give proper warning and it seems to just make people miserable with no practical purpose at all. Though I suppose this is a discussion for another time, though.

For the record, I did suggest in the thread that happened after the rule started to be enforced again in the Hentai Quotes gallery that we just forget the anti-link rule for that particular gallery, being that anybody hanging out in the Hentai Quotes gallery should certainly be able to handle hentai links, but it was decided that the rule should indeed be enforced. Though that's neither here nor there.

I found out about the mandatory tags just a few minutes ago, and you know what? I 1000% agree with that.

@Cipher: Okay, that definitely doesn't make sense at all. Probably needs a separate discussion, but it really needs to be discussed.

Concerning the tagging system; I feel a bit stuck as to how I should tag things.

Eg. I uploaded a gif of Mewtwo crying, so I used the tags "Mewtwo" and "Crying". The next day I find it's now been tagged with "eye shimmer gif", "eye shimmer", "animated eye gif".

Should I be using tags like that then? I try to think over what people are going to type into the search bar to find images and it's a bit tricky. At what point would I be going overboard or adding silly tags?

One of the drawbacks of letting anyone edit but just KISS…. Keep It Simple Stupid.
Going over board with too many tags is not necessary and tags that aren't easy to think of can be a waste of time. Also tags that are too simple like "funny", "meme" or "gif" can waste time.

Yeah, I did that because of this thread. I've pretty frequently scouted out memes we might get a page for in the future with tags, so that some of them can be found and moved later. Of course, it's hard to know beforehand what things people might need the image for. It is hard to overtag as long as the tags make sense Example: don't tag every Vivian James fanart image as "feminism". Very few people looking for feminism wold be looking for Vivian fanart, and very few people looking for Vivian fanart would search for feminism.

Still, as Vaz said don't feel obligated to add 50 tags to every image for every possible verb noun or adjective applicable. As long as you make some effort and tag with stuff that makes sense, it's not a huge problem.

The issue with making exceptions for any rule is that that creates a precedent FOR exceptions. If there were a reason we had to avoid source links for a future article, then they could go "well Hentai Quotes doesn't follow that rule, why do we have to?" And admit it – there's no good reason. People can access that gallery just as easily as any other gallery on the site.

It's also important to note that KYM's NSFW policy is unusual, for similar reasons. We do not allow explicit or borderline nudity except for when it's necessary to document the meme (See Daily Dose, for example, where that's specifically part of it), but we do allow borderline softcore, (partially) clothed images, as long as they aren't too explicit (this is where we would worry more about sexual fluids, etc). Part of that NSFW policy also includes off-site links. I'm gonna go on a limb here, but most of the doujins that these are collected from aren't in the second category. This isn't recent, but was not explicitly stated until we really started seeing this get out of hand. That doesn't mean it wasn't against the rules before – just that apparently this needs to be spelled out for some people, and so we did that.

Since our rules are site-wide rules, we enforce them site-wide – and that gallery in particular is a frequent violator right now. Links and uncropped quotes are a daily occurrence, and frankly, it's tedious. We're rapidly approaching another Cringeworthy situation here, and that's the last thing I want to happen, not because I particularly like the gallery (which I don't, I think it's stupid), but because I don't want to restrict contributions to the site again, simply because people couldn't follow the rules we'd repeated over and over.

But you're right, this isn't the place for this conversation, and if you really have a problem with it, make a new thread for it. We can discuss it there.

Besides, who the hell even has to rely on porn from a memesite?

and if you really have a problem with it, make a new thread for it. We can discuss it there.

I already said my piece in the forum we had back then to discuss the matter, and my opinion remains unchanged. Likewise, I still accept, as I already did before, that my opinion on the issue really doesn't mean much when the people that actually run this site have already made their decision. We agreed to disagree once before, and I will continue to hold my tongue about it, as I have since, so long as the decision made then stands. I was simply pointing out to those who didn't already know that a final decision has already been reached on the issue.

^But I probably will in a few days or so.

The decision doesn't make the remotest sense and there's no need to "agree to disagree" or "just accept" something that doesn't make sense. Quite frankly it's a stupid rule that should just go, and I will certainly be making that topic soon.

Finally, though I do have one question though is it okay to put like to put a tag like if it's a title of a series? Like for example using the tag "Fire Emblem Awakening" in the "Fire Emblem Gallery" or should I just put "Awakening"?

That's fine. If you are willing to do it, I think it would be slightly better to put the full name, as it gives better context, and is less likely to get random related images. Not really something critically important though, especially since James was able to fix the search issue I brought up earlier in thread. There are some odd things I can think of where it would be easier to browse with the more specific search of "tags:("X")" if lots of things have partially or fully overlapping names, but these instances are fairly rare.

Honestly, putting the name of the entry as a tag isn't the problem. The problem is when people only put the name of the entry as a tag, because that is completely useless when using the search function, and doesn't allow the image to show up in the untagged image feed.

Yeah I usually put in the full name. Those it's nice too with image titles since if you know the name of the image title you can be able to search for it if don't know what the image tags are.

With this change in place, I can now tag the untagged images and watch the number go down instead of up

181,685…

181,684…

181,683…

I see that it's fully in effect now but I still don't really agree with mandatory titles like everyone else.
The mandatory tags was definitely a brilliant idea.